Voting for the April POTM closed - we have a winner!

[admin]

As discussed few days ago, we're trying to make the POTM competition more interesting and fair for everyone. Here is the poll with selected 12 most viewed/rated photos for April.

You can vote for more than one photo and voting ends in 7 days.

[coffee]

I don't understand. So this poll will decide the winner, and all the votes for the month are just qualifying votes to get into the top 12 on percentage alone? I certainly hope this isn't the case. I think a 2 tiered voting system is overkill, and not needed. If you are like me, I spend a lot of time during the month looking at everyone's photo's, and voting for them accordingly. I don't see a need to do it again at the end of the month.

You state there was a disscusion about this a few days ago. I can't find the link.

[dkippen]

Joseph - this is where it started:


http://www.proudphotography.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1393

[coffee]

Thanks for the link Deb.

I think this is very dissapointing. Here's why:

If a photo only needs say 5 votes of "4" to get in the top 12 and make the final "poll", but gets 20 "5" votes, most of those votes don't account for anything, and the ones taken the time to vote, need not really. Is this the message we want to tell the members and visitors that take the time to vote, that it may not matter.

And if one photo get's 20 "5's" and a "4", and another gets 2 "5's", the second has a better chance of getting into the top 12 based on percentage!!! What??

In trying to make the contest more "fair", it just went in the opposite direction. I've said my peace.

Plus if the contest is going to be changed, it should be reflected on the rules page.

I understand there is not perfect system, but this new change is working against that goal.

[admin]

Ok guys, let's work this one out together. We are trying to get better in everything we do and we can make it if you throw your opinions in the hat. The new poll system is nothing more than making what we already have, more easier. Take it as a test run if you like.

The photos selected for the poll include all the votes collected during the month of April. The ones that did poorly are not included so during the next 7 days visitors can fully concentrate to give votes only to the competition favorites.

Please feel free to talk about it here. Thank you.

[gjtoth]

I had a hunch it would come to this nit-picking over petty stuff.

It's Peter's call. If you don't like the way it's run... don't participate. Or, YOU put up the prize(s) and run your own board with your own contest the way YOU want.

[coffee]

I had a hunch it would come to this nit-picking over petty stuff.

It's Peter's call. If you don't like the way it's run... don't participate. Or, YOU put up the prize(s) and run your own board with your own contest the way YOU want.

Well, wasn't that a little harsh!! Maybe the logic confuses you. I guess not all of us want to make things better. I, unlike you would rather talk about it than ignore it. You are right, it's Peter's call. But he is willing to talk about, and you are not. So I guess if you don't want to talk about, I suggest YOU not partisipate.

You know you are right gjtoth, I think I will just step aside and not create waves. That's not why I joined up. I came here to make freinds not enemies. I will choose not to join in the raindeer games.

[gjtoth]

Well, wasn't that a little harsh!! Thanks for pointing out the fact that I was nit-picking. Maybe the logic confuses you. I guess not all of us want to make things better. I, unlike you would rather talk about it than ignore it. You are right, it's Peter's call. But he is willing to talk about, and you are not. So I guess if you don't want to talk about, I suggest YOU not partisipate.

I don't participate.


You know you are right gjtoth, I think I will just step aside and not create waves. That's not why I joined up. I came here to make freinds not enemies. I will choose not to join in the raindeer games.

Your perogative.

[coffee]

I don't participate.



Your perogative.

If you don't participate, then why do you care. You know, this bickering isn't nessasary at all. So lets just delete or close this thread and go about our way.

[admin]

Take it easy boys!

We're all here to have a good time so let's get constructive and to the point please.

[coffee]

Take it easy boys!

We're all here to have a good time so let's get constructive and to the point please.

Under the current system, not all votes are actually counted. If one photo only needs 5 perfect votes to get into the end of the month poll, but gets 10 perfect votes, those 5 perfect votes aren't needed and don't really count for anything. That was my concern. The other concern came from coathanger007, where the member didn't think late entries got a fair shake because they didn't get the number of view an early post might get.

Here is one suggestion. Use the first 3 weeks of the month for posting entries. Use the last week of the month for voting on these photo's. That way everyone has the chance to see all the entries, at the same time, all at one time.

During the voting, one will vote for thier choice for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place. Each place is awarded points. So 1st place votes would be worth 10 points, 2nd-5, and 3rd-3, or something similar. These points are then added up and the photo with the most points wins the contest.

So, if a photo gets (1) first place vote, he has 10 points. But if one photo gets (4) third place votes totaling 12 points, he would win.

This is just a quick example of a points system, but it accomplishes what we are looking for. First, it makes every vote count, and second, conserning coathanger007's issue, it doesn't matter when you submit your photo, as long as it's within that 3 week period.

[admin]

That sounds interesting, however it would require complete redesign of the voting system.

How about this: We can simply eliminate the handicap for late entries and still keep current simple 5 star voting system.
- We let the competition entries coming in with voting disabled for 3 weeks.
- Then close new uploads and open voting for the following 2 weeks.
- This way each vote counts, it's easy to understand and nobody gets penalized for late entry

[angierae]

That sounds like it would work to me :D Simple solution, tinier poll :P

[coffee]

That sound interesting, however it would require complete redesign of the voting system.

How about this: We can simply eliminate the handicap for late entries and still keep current simple 5 star voting system.
- We let the competition entries coming in with voting disabled for 3 weeks.
- Then close new uploads and open voting for the following 2 weeks.
- This way each vote counts, it's easy to understand and nobody gets penalized for late entry

I understand the issues with a re-design certainly. And I think an entry deadline, followed with a voting period is the way to go. So the late entry issue would be laid to rest.

I wish there is a way to take the percentages out of things though, and make it into a points system only. %'s really skew the numbers and not in a good way. Well, would there have to be a re-design if the numbers were just added up for each entry vote, and disregard the average %, and use the points for the contest? So instead of the photo showing the running percent average, it could show a running points total?

And, thanks for the disscusion.

[admin]

I understand the issues with a re-design certainly. And I think an entry deadline, followed with a voting period is the way to go. So the late entry issue would be laid to rest.

I wish there is a way to take the percentages out of things though, and make it into a points system only. %'s really skew the numbers and not in a good way. Well, would there have to be a re-design if the numbers were just added up for each entry vote, and disregard the average %, and use the points for the contest? So instead of the photo showing the running percent average, it could show a running points total?

And, thanks for the disscusion.


Percentages only show the statistical proportion of voters for a particular choice. Points decide, not percentages. Because there were 10 voters so far, 4 points indicate 40% of voters made the same choice in the poll, 7 votes is 70% (out of total 10 voters). Please ignore percentages, they are distorted because I applied points manually from previous rating. How could 10 voters possibly give 31 votes? That's why it shows 100%. Does this make sense? :) I hope it does.

Anyway, the competition rules (http://www.proudphotography.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817) have been updated and I believe it's the best solution until someone else brings something better.

[coffee]

Percentages only show the statistical proportion of voters for a particular choice. Points decide, not percentages. Because there were 10 voters so far, 4 points indicate 40% of voters made the same choice in the poll, 7 votes is 70% (out of total 10 voters). Please ignore percentages, they are distorted because I applied points manually from previous rating. How could 10 voters possibly give 31 votes? That's why it shows 100%. Does this make sense? :) I hope it does.

Anyway, the competition rules (http://www.proudphotography.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817) have been updated and I believe it's the best solution until someone else brings something better.

I think we are talking about different things though. I wasn't taking into account the poll after the fact. I was refering to having 2 weeks of voting based on a points system with no poll. I understand what you are doing in the poll, but with a points system during those 2 weeks, there would be no need for a poll unless there was a tie indicated based on points.

But in any event, I think a photo entry deadline, followed with a voting time period is a great start.

[angierae]

This may be just me but is the first entry a picture of a painting? Or is it just really heavily edited? There's some parts that look like a photo like the flower things above his head but other things like the butterflies are obviously drawings. I've never been to LV so I've no clue if this is an actual thing of a painting or what :confused:

[Snappers]

Peter, I think the suggestion of only allowing votes in the last two weeks is a good idea.

People need to be reminded though that you can only submit 3 entries. Is there a way to limit this in the settings so people can not submit more than 3?

Also people can vote on their own picture, is this allowed?

[coathanger007]

hehe :D Things don't need to be so complex. Simply disregard the star rating system. Once all entries are in all images go to a poll. Voting goes for 7 days. The vote is only for the winner. Highest number of votes wins.

This will also ensure that only registered people vote and people can't vote multiple times ;)

[Robson316]

Coathangers is awesome, he GMV

[LensBaby]

Peter - that is perfect and I think it will work out great. (Some people have to travel to take monthly photos, and if they work long hours this will give them time to do that, and then submit them)

[admin]

hehe :D Things don't need to be so complex. Simply disregard the star rating system. Once all entries are in all images go to a poll. Voting goes for 7 days. The vote is only for the winner. Highest number of votes wins.

This will also ensure that only registered people vote and people can't vote multiple times ;)

I don't think the poll is the way to go in a future. What if there were 200 photos in the comp? The poll would be enormous and take a lot of time to load. 5-star voting system is simple and visually better IMHO.


Peter, I think the suggestion of only allowing votes in the last two weeks is a good idea.

People need to be reminded though that you can only submit 3 entries. Is there a way to limit this in the settings so people can not submit more than 3?

Also people can vote on their own picture, is this allowed?

Unfortunately there is no such option that could limit the number of photos at the moment. And yes, you can vote on your own pics, nothing can stop people doing that.


Peter - that is perfect and I think it will work out great. (Some people have to travel to take monthly photos, and if they work long hours this will give them time to do that, and then submit them)

Thank you LensBaby.

[coathanger007]

If we ever get to 200 posts then it's a something we can consider at that time. Still have a long way to go ;)

In another forum I've visited contestants could be blocked from voting. There must be a way.

[Snappers]

Unfortunately there is no such option that could limit the number of photos at the moment. And yes, you can vote on your own pics, nothing can stop people doing that.




Perhaps people who dont follow the rules i.e. only 3 submissions should be disqualified from that months comp.

[admin]

And the winner of POTM April '08 is

coathanger007

The winning photo "Melbourne City night life" is below:

http://www.proudphotography.com/forum/gallery/files/1/6/4/4/citylights.jpg

Congratulations!

[LensBaby]

Congratulations! That is a very beautiful photo.

[coathanger007]

Woohoo! :D Was a close competition! Can't wait to receive my prize...just in time for mother's day :)

[Snappers]

Congrats Coathanger. It is a very nice pic.

[ladyups]

Congratulation's!. This was my pick of the bunch, so I'm glad it won. It's a lovely image.

[coathanger007]

Thanks :) Next month's is quite challenging. Just posted my first entry...let's see how we go ;)