Understanding something probably simple

[pasknucklehead]

Hi everyone,
This is going to be a very embarrassing question, probably because it seems like I should know the answer, but I don't.
Anyways, okay, for example, if you were to do a group photo, say 5 people. You want to make sure you do a good job, of course, but you don't want to stand back away from them so they look like little bugs, but yet you want to make sure you don't crop them so close in your viewfinder that if they by chance want an enlargement of say 8x10, you don't want to have their arms and legs chopped up enlarging. Just how far back is a good distance? I did this once, and luckily to get everyone in and not to stand too far away with my 18-55 lens I shot them too close and when I went to enlarge to an 8x10, I did in fact lose an arm. What does everyone suggest? And I imagine the same would go for a close up portrait, you don't want to be so close to fill the viewfinder, but yet, you don't want a lot of crap behind the subject. And here is another strange question, (told you I would be embarrassed:)) Say you did take a portrait of someones head and you took it at a little distance, how would you know if you were to crop it in a program, that the closer you bring it in, if it will still be just as sharp as the original. And when you take a photo and are looking in your lcd on your camera and you zoom it in and after zooming in really close, it goes blurry, why doesn't that show you how it is going to be when you do pretty the exact same thing when cropping an image in a program? Hope those questions make sense.
Thankyou
DC

[reval8r]

There are really so many variables at play. There are literally a hundred different ways to handle the situations which you discuss.


Anyways, okay, for example, if you were to do a group photo, say 5 people. You want to make sure you do a good job, of course, but you don't want to stand back away from them so they look like little bugs, but yet you want to make sure you don't crop them so close in your viewfinder that if they by chance want an enlargement of say 8x10, you don't want to have their arms and legs chopped up enlarging. Just how far back is a good distance?

A group of 5 is a small group and how you would fit them on an 8x10 crop again has many variables. How are you going to arrange the group? If the group is lined-up horizontally across the picture you’ll have to be much further back from them than you would if there in a diamond shape. With a 18-55mm lens you could stay really close to the group, but there is the possibility of perspective distortion from being to close to the lens. The sensor size in your camera also has a great deal to do with the composition on an 8x10 crop. Cameras with a 2:3 sensor needs a little extra space on the ends for cropping over a 3:4 sensor or full frame sensor.

Some general guides lines as to the subject camera distance. These distances are for full frame sensors and a different ratio will be slightly different.

1 person Head & Shoulders Portrait.
50mm lens 5ft (1.5m) away from subject
85mm lens 9ft (2.5m)
135mm lens 13ft (4m)

1 person Full-length portrait.
50mm lens 10ft (3m) away from subject
85mm lens 17ft (5m)
135mm lens 26ft (8m)

Group of 4 people portraits
50mm 13ft (3.8m) from subjects
85mm 22 ft (6.5m)
135mm 34ft (10.4m)

Also, I think you might find a focusing screen for you camera’s eye piece that has guidelines for cropping say 8x10, but not really sure about this.


Say you did take a portrait of someones head and you took it at a little distance, how would you know if you were to crop it in a program, that the closer you bring it in, if it will still be just as sharp as the original.

No. Anytime you crop or enlarge an image you will loose some sharpness and quality of the image. Just how much depends on the quality you started with. You can crop off more or enlarge to a bigger size from a 14 mega pixel image than an 8 mega pixel with less noticeable. It depends more on what is acceptable. We always loose sharpness and image quality when our image gets bigger than the original size, it comes down to what we view as an acceptable image.


And when you take a photo and are looking in your lcd on your camera and you zoom it in and after zooming in really close, it goes blurry, why doesn't that show you how it is going to be when you do pretty the exact same thing when cropping an image in a program

I would never really on the LCD for viewing an image, except for maybe having to hold the camera above my head. If the image gets zoomed in closer than the lens minimum focusing distance, it will blur. Again, the camera sensor does not use the same cropping ratio as the size we commonly use for prints.

Not sure if this help you or not, but I took a crack at it.

Larry

[Angela2932]

Larry, thanks for this guideline. I have a 35mm 2.0 lens. . . and have 2nd thoughts about having purchased it. How would this lens fit into these guidelines.

I know the lens risks some facial distortion if you're too close to an individual. . . but if you are in close quarters (in a living room or kitchen!) don't allow for the 5' distance of a 50mm lens.

Some of my ambivalence about this lens is also because it's manual focus with the Nikon D40. But I have the lens, so I need to figure out life with it!

[pasknucklehead]

Larry, Thank you very much for that explaination and it makes perfect sense now that I see it in writing. I did do an 11x14 enlargement with my nikon d-40 and was really pleased with it, but I can see a slight difference in clarity from the original. But the parents loved it and that's what counts.
Thank you so much for answering.
DC

[reval8r]

Larry, thanks for this guideline. I have a 35mm 2.0 lens. . . and have 2nd thoughts about having purchased it. How would this lens fit into these guidelines.

I know the lens risks some facial distortion if you're too close to an individual. . . but if you are in close quarters (in a living room or kitchen!) don't allow for the 5' distance of a 50mm lens.

The 35mm for most digitals would be close to the 50mm guidelines I posted. When close you would risk some facial distortion as you mentioned. Most rooms are going to allow 5' or more distance unless it's a closet or small bath. Also, one of the trends that seem to be the fad is using wide angle lens and shooting close to get facial distortion. The teens really like stuff that looks weird.

Don't regret the purchase of the lens Angela, you'll find many good uses for it. Actually it's a very good lens to have in your arsenal. I love fixed lenses. I think zooms make us lazy, we just zoom in or out and not really look for the best location for the shot we're after. I find with a fixed lens, I work a little more to take a better shot, plus the image is better quality.

[reval8r]

Larry, Thank you very much for that explaination and it makes perfect sense now that I see it in writing. I did do an 11x14 enlargement with my nikon d-40 and was really pleased with it, but I can see a slight difference in clarity from the original. But the parents loved it and that's what counts.
Thank you so much for answering.
DC

Your welcome DC. Also, you would sharpen a large image in post a little more than a smaller image. I shoot mostly with a Pentax K20D and get really sharp images up to 24x30, but I do have to given them a little more sharpening with a custom high pass in post. That should help with you 11x14 as well.

Larry