Canon EOS 20D SLR

[jeff-in]

A guy I work with who does part time wedding photography asked me if I would be interested in a slightly used Canon EOS 20D SLR and said he would throw in possibly a 17-85 or 18-55 lens with the 17-85 being the better of the 2 lenses.

What is your opinion regarding this camera and how much is a fair price for a slightly used 20D? He said that right after he bought it they came out with the 40D so this one has been used very little. As far as pricing he said he would probably not charge me as much as I could buy a good used one for and we found them on ebay from anywhere from 350-600. I also asked about possibly ghost shooting with him sometime so he can teach me some stuff about SLR's and higher end cameras and he said that could be a possibility.

[LensBaby]

First of all ...find out how many photos have been shot with it. Do a little research and look up cameras, and look at the pricing. The 30d actually came out after the 20d and then the 40d came out. .I actually had a pro photographer that only used Canon tell me to watch the actuations on the camera when you purchase it. Here read this...

http://www.sumption.org/2006/11/24/shutter-actuations-on-a-canon-eos-20d/

A lot of cameras are 100,000 and that is just a number, you never know. You hate to get it and the shutter fail. It might cost as much as you paid for the camera to get a new one. I had a sony a700 that had less than 1,000 photos on it and the sensor went bad. So it can happen even if you have a new camera. Just decide if the price is right, and how much you really want it. Oh yeah, I have shot weddings. ....trust me when I tell you he is shooting A TON of shots per wedding. I had almost 2,000 for my last wedding.

[jeff-in]

Susan,
I will check with him and see if he can tell me exactly how many shots has been taken. He said even though he bought it for his business, that once he got the 40D he did not use the 20D very often but it is for sure something that I will look into.

I read the link that you attached and it was very informative. Thanks

[jeff-in]

After looking around at prices today and seeing how much the prices have came down on DSLR camera's I am now thinking about instead of buying the used D20 which he does not know how to check the total shots on,I am considering buying a brand new DSLR instead.

When I showed the guy the cameras that I was looking at he started trying to convince me otherwise and my common sense starting kicking in and I would be an idiot to buy a used D20 when I can buy a brand new camera for what he would probably charge me for the used D20.

If you have any other suggestions of good entry level DSLR cameras and I would like to possibly have a telephoto lens in the deal as well if possible I would be more than willing to listen to your excellent suggestions. I am considering the following cameras if anyone wants to chime in with opinions. All of these cameras are currently on sale at Best Buy but it will probably be spring before I do anything.


Sony DSLR-A300K Black Alpha 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera with Extra 75-300 Lens

Canon 2762B003 Black EOS Rebel XS 10.1MP Digital SLR Camera with Extra 75-300 Lens

Nikon D60 - 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera - Black

[LensBaby]

I have to say all of those are very good cameras.Go to the store and hold them in your hands, and see which one feels right for you. If you look online you can print bestbuy coupons for like 10% or 12% off. They all work at best buy because I use them all of the time. Try that if you get one from there. I bought the warrenty (the accidental one as well) and they are great when I have a problem with my camera. When my Sony went bad, I had a wedding to shoot, and they told me that they could not get the A700 anymore. It was discontinued (I dont know if it was just best buy discontinuing it what but they could not get me one from Sony either at that time) They traded me everything straight up for Canon equipment and lenses, and even flash and all of my batteries.

[jerryph]

...which he does not know how to check the total shots on,I am considering buying a brand new DSLR instead.

When I showed the guy the cameras that I was looking at he started trying to convince me otherwise and my common sense starting kicking in and I would be an idiot to buy a used D20 when I can buy a brand new camera for what he would probably charge me for the used D20.


Wow, a pro that doesn't know how to tell you how many shots he took and then trying to push it on you... I can hear the danger bells ringing from here.

If you need to find out... take a picture with that camera, and send me that picture, I'll tell you exactly what the shutter count was at the moment you took the pic as long as the EXIF is not stripped.

Sue was right about wedding photographers and the # of pics. I average an easy 2,000+ per DAY easily. If he used it for even 10 weddings (10 events), you are looking at more than a hard year's worth of use for the average person (over 20,000 pics).

I am not an avid Canon user, I am more familiar with Nikon... and before suggesting the D60, would recommend the Nikon D90 instead. Way better camera and it also does HD video.

[jeff-in]

Susan,
Thanks for your response about the 3 cameras I am considering. I am looking around on different photography sites and looking at peoples signatures to see if they show what camera they use and if they have a flickr listed then I have been going and looking at the quality of the pictures that the camera takes. After having the Canon S5 for the last year it is very easy to say stick with the Canon Rebel XS or XSi because of the menu structure being very similar but I am kind of want to maybe try something different. For some reason I keep migrating towards the Sony.

I noticed from a post here where someone was talking about the Alpha 300 and seems several have used that camera or similar alpha's and still using them. The deal Best Buy has with the A300K with the 18-70 lens and extra 75-300 lens for 599.98 seems pretty good. How hard is it to get used to the A300K? Is it a pretty good camera or for 599.98 with the telephoto lense would I be getting a mediocre camera? I cant afford a 1000 dollars for an SLR but 600 is more doable but I just want to make sure I wont get stuck with a bad camera and regret 3 months down the road buying a cheap piece of junk.

[jeff-in]

Wow, a pro that doesn't know how to tell you how many shots he took and then trying to push it on you... I can hear the danger bells ringing from here.

If you need to find out... take a picture with that camera, and send me that picture, I'll tell you exactly what the shutter count was at the moment you took the pic as long as the EXIF is not stripped.



Jerry,
I have pretty much done made up my mind I will not be getting the D20. I agree with you that it kind of sent a red flag flying in my mind when he said he did not know how to find the shutter count. You should have seen and heard the song and dance when I told him that for the price of what he would probably want considering he said he paid around 1400 for the camera and the fact that he could not tell me the shutter count that I was going to look at new ones.

He immediately started putting down every camera that I showed him and kept saying for professional photography these cameras are not good. I made sure I reminded him I am an ameteur photographer not a pro, not made of money, and also a newbie when it comes to SLR's since I have used a P&S the last year so the lower class DSLR's may be good for me that way I can put my own shutter counts on there and not have a used one.

[LensBaby]

I agree. Start with something of your own, and you will know the history of the camera. You do not want somebody elses headache. As far as him putting down the cameras that you were talking about...if he is a pro he SHOULD know that the camera is not what makes or breaks a photo...it is the photographer. Any of the cameras that you are looking at are good cameras. You do not have to have a pro camera, heck even a lot of pro's do not use PRO cameras. It is funny to think that you must have a pro camera to take good photos. Yes, pro cameras have easy touch controls, and some of the semi pro/amatuer have jog wheels, but trust me if you are learning you will be fine with those cameras. Go to dpreview and you can compare the options of cameras side by side. It is a nice feature. Also, check out Ken Rockwells site to see what he has listed.

[jeff-in]

Susan,
I was checking out DPReview some yesterday after I started researching the different cameras, Very good site. I will for sure research and research like I did with my S5 so that when I do get ready to go actually pick it up I usually know more about the camera then the sales person.

Do you know what the difference is between the Sony A300D and A300X? When I compared them side by side the only difference I could see was the 300X had more flash options then the 300D and I will put what I found online below. The 300D I can get at best buy with the 75-300 lense, and I found the 300X with the 18-55 lense and 55-200 lense for the same price as I found the 300D with the 75-300 lense.

300D:
Flash: Accessory Shoe,
Built-in Flash

300X:
Accessory Shoe,
Built-in Auto Flash,
Flash Cancel (Off),
Forced / Fill Flash,
Red-Eye Reduction,
Slow Speed Sync

[LensBaby]

On the dpreview there are sony alpha forums. Go there and post that question, because most of the people on there know everything about the Sony's. I am not sure if there is big difference in these cameras. I am still looking for you.

[jeff-in]

Cool I will check it out for sure. Thanks for the reply

[LensBaby]

Jeff did you ever decide what camera to purchase?

[jeff-in]

Jeff did you ever decide what camera to purchase?


Susan,
right now I am still leaning towards the Sony alpha A300. I have seen the Nikon D60 live and in person at Sams Club and liked the feel of it in my hand but couldnt get a good feel because of the security device that was attached to it. The camera did feel comfortable in my hands as far as grip goes. I was able to play around a little bit with the menu and take a couple test pictures with it. I also looked at the Rebel XS and XSi at Walmart and I was not too crazy about the rebels. I am hopeful to maybe get to go look at the Sony's soon in person and see how it feels while we are on shutdown between now and Jan 5th.

I have downloaded the Sony A300 user manual online and going to read it and will probably do the same with the D60 as well so I have some stuff to compare with, and will probably chart the different functions on an excel sheet so I am can physically look at and compare them. I have also been looking at different peoples photos on Flickr and other photo sites based on tag searches of Nikon D60 or Sony A300. I have not really looked at the Pentax cameras any and have sort of been going between the Nikon and the Sony only. If I had to make a decision today I would probably say I would take the Sony A300 based on the Lenses that are available, Sony filter size since they are mostly 55MM and I have 58MM Hoya filters and would need a small step down to use my Hoya's, and overall features like the live view.

I have a couple months probably before I will have the money saved to buy anything so who knows by the time I get the money saved from my leftover gas money from my work commute I may have a completely different decision. The guy who wanted me to buy his old camera thinks I should stick strictly with Canon and still says I should buy a 20D only because he only uses canon cameras and is still not happy that I made the decision I was not buying his old camera. He told me just last week that he thinks I should buy a new 20D and was shocked when I told him you cant buy them anymore at best buy because it is a 5-6 year old camera.

He really hasn't talked to me much at all since that particular day that I told him I wasnt buying his camera because he could not tell me how many shots had been taken and I would rather buy new so I know how many had been taken and he barely says hi as he walks by my cubicle heading back to his. He still is trying to get me to buy a used camera though because we have a classified ads on the Lilly Intranet and I came back from lunch one day and there was a classified ad for a used Canon Rebel setting on my keyboard and he stopped to see if I saw the ad. He just doesnt get it that I do not want a used camera.