This may sound bad but............

[LensBaby]

THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED

[jerryph]

One would hope that people don't come here ONLY for the money or the POTM prizes. They would be missing out on so much.

Me, I am in the other direction... meaning I do not post in the POTM, preferring to participate in the forums, exchanges and helping people out when I can, but I certainly can see the advantage of giving the vote to true contributing members rather than people who come here for one thing only. I feel the word leech comes to mind rather quickly to me (is that too harsh a word? I apologize, but that is how I feel).

[jc207]

Just a suggestion, but as a member to other sites not related to photography. As members you have to have a certain amount of post before you can participate is like contest or to sell items. Yes there are ways around this, but maybe they will see what a great site this is and change there agenda. Just a thought.

[Woody]

Well, I would like to offer my humble .02

While I have not posted as much as I would like due to my work schedule(being In Emergency Services) my first priority is my family and then my hobby(photography)

I do think some people tend to get frustrated at times when they post photos hoping for feedback and get none. Mind you, this is NOT my feeling, just an observation. I know everyone is very busy with their own lives and post when they can. Just from my own experiances on photos I've posted, I've had 30-40 views, but no feedback and that's ok, I'm just glad they are getting looked at.

I just think some people get frustrated and would just rather do the competition then the forums. I have seen some members post their frustrations on here.

Again, not my own feelings, just my own observations..

[coffee]

Interesting. I never gave this a thought. I will have to check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

[dkippen]

Sue - I absolutely agree with you. If I remember right, we did/have a member that joined just for the purpose of enter the POTM. Currently, I've spent more time going through the forum - just haven't had time to look at the galleries and POTM. I too have noticed that when people have joined, you'll the "Hi - I'm here and want to learn." then nothing else. I too understand that family comes first and everything after that comes second. Jerry - I think that right now, I'm in the same train of thought - voting preference to those that participate in the forums.

This topic could generate a lot of discussion.

[dkippen]

Sue -

AMEN!! You're here anyway.

[Woody]

I agree my family comes first as well, and then my photography, BUT I also think it would be appropriate and also polite to at least say "hi my name is blah blah blah" and then post. I am just telling you my 2 cents and it is I am only voting for the people that have posted on here. Like I said "one" post will do. I just know what I do, and will continue to do.

I also have commented on your photos, and your website...you have some cool stuff there. I would love to be able to take photos of what you do. It would be interesting that is for sure.

I'll agree with that and thanks for visiting my blog!:D

[laura]

I hadn't noticed either, but then I don't get to spend as much time as I would like looking at the POTM galleries, prefering to look at the posts on the forum.
I am shocked that people only come here to enter the comp. and win money. As Jerry said, they are missing out on so much.
The POTM is a great/fun part of the forum, the prize money is just a nice added extra as far as I'm concerned.

[melody]

I agree 100%

[jerryph]

It takes about the same time to come and see who is winner of the last competition you participated in as it does to do a single simple post.

This concept of competition only without participation doesn't wash, no excuses. This is NOT the kind of member that is frankly, even desired here and is damned rude. If you have time to upload pics, you have the SAME amount of time to spend reading and replying.

I am not saying that family isn't important, but frankly it also has nothing to do with posting pictures or posts on this board either. If you do not have time to post, you should also have NO time to upload pictures.

Point blank... my stance is that if you cannot find a few seconds to participate in the growth of this club, WHY should you be considered eligible for even the smallest of prizes??

It is the participating people of this club that make this place what it is, NOT the people who upload pics and offer ZERO in return. Why should they get the chance to reap the rewards without a little easy work on their end?

No more free lunch is my vote and strongest suggestion for all active members to follow.

[jerryph]

I understand the some of those people might be students here at PP, and that is not what I am talking about in the above post.....Just to let you all know.

I also consider these participants, but on several levels... you will not see many participants come here and NOT introduce themselves or take advantage of the board. They have also pad for a course given by the staff here and *do* participate by the simple act of doing the course.

Still, one would hope they had the time to at least say hi to their fellow classmates. ;)

[LensBaby]

It takes about the same time to come and see who is winner of the last competition you participated in as it does to do a single simple post.

This concept of competition only without participation doesn't wash, no excuses. This is NOT the kind of member that is frankly, even desired here and is damned rude. If you have time to upload pics, you have the SAME amount of time to spend reading and replying.

I am not saying that family isn't important, but frankly it also has nothing to do with posting pictures or posts on this board either. If you do not have time to post, you should also have NO time to upload pictures.

Point blank... my stance is that if you cannot find a few seconds to participate in the growth of this club, WHY should you be considered eligible for even the smallest of prizes??

It is the participating people of this club that make this place what it is, NOT the people who upload pics and offer ZERO in return. Why should they get the chance to reap the rewards without a little easy work on their end?

No more free lunch is my vote and strongest suggestion for all active members to follow.


You said it 100% perfect. I think us members, who enjoy this forum, should vote for the people that take the time to make this forum what it has become. My vote will always go for the person that I recognize - regardless. Like Jerry said up above, if you have time to upload, then you have time to post of the forum, and make this forum even more active than what it is. Help make it grow!!!!! My vote is with Jerry - no more free lunch!

[pdlewis]

Well I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact it is pretty disappointing to hear that now that I finally understand how the forum works that there are "insiders" here who are worried about who gets the $30.

I am in the midst of taking the course, an amatuer is overstating my abilities thus far and just wondered what it would be like to actually enter a contest. I only learned how the contest works today by poking around for hours.

If it really offends you to think that a newbie is trying to move in on your $30 bucks, please take the entry down.

Thanks.

[coffee]

Well I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact it is pretty disappointing to hear that now that I finally understand how the forum works that there are "insiders" here who are worried about who gets the $30.

I am in the midst of taking the course, an amatuer is overstating my abilities thus far and just wondered what it would be like to actually enter a contest. I only learned how the contest works today by poking around for hours.

If it really offends you to think that a newbie is trying to move in on your $30 bucks, please take the entry down.

Thanks.

If you read Sue's first post in this thread, her concern is that there may be some that are here ONLY to try and win prize money in the contests. "Ringers" if you will. That this is there only contribution they make to our forum. It has nothing to do with amatures moving in on the prize money. We are all amatures, that's why we're here.

I'm still on the fence on this one. The reason is the only requirement for participation is that you are a member. That's all. So even though I would like to see contest members more active than just entering the contests, like helping out in the forum, talking more about photography and such, there isn't any rule that says you HAVE to have a certain number of posts before you can enter. So as long as they are members, and follow the rest of the rules, I guess I can't take issues with it. I don't think this is a wide spread problem.

[jerryph]

Well I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact it is pretty disappointing to hear that now that I finally understand how the forum works that there are "insiders" here who are worried about who gets the $30.


I don't think you read the thread completely before posting. People taking the course here are not the ones we were speaking about, and this was said TWICE. I don't even participate in the POTM competition here and have the attitude I do. I care about making this forum better, and that cannot be done if my post count is 0, or if all I post is garbage just to "appear" as if I am contributing.

People who's post count is zero and are not students here, that contribute NOTHING to the board, yet feel free, without the courtesy of even 1 single "hi" post... that they can upload pictures here in an attempt to win prizes *are* leeches that contribute NOTHING. I bet that they just sit on their flat behinds posting pics to as many competitions they can find ALL DAY on any site they can.

Childish greedy leechers is what I call them now... and THAT is the kind of person not welcome here, IMHO.

If that describes anyone here and they are all offended... tough, suck it up, and either change or move on. It takes more than leeches to make a good forum better, and certainly this kind of person shall not be missed if they cannot learn to participate in meaningful ways to make this place as good as it is.

BTW, interesting that pdlewis made the time to post an angry comment after winning here... but he himself did not even offer a polite little "hi" prior to his fellow classmates here. I would have much rather met him and had a nicer first impression of him before seeing the misguided attitude. Posting a hello is not mandatory, but then again neither is courtesy, I suppose... thats a little sad.

[coffee]

I went through all the entries for Dec and came up with these numbers:

28 members that posted entries have no thread posts. Of these, 8 of them only have photos in contest, and no other photos in thier gallery. Of these 8, all of them just joined in late Dec. of 2008.

What does this tell you? It tells me that there is no pattern yet that would indicate there are any Ringers. Since these 8 just joined, maybe they haven't had the time to do anything else yet. You once posted to a thread about how busy you were and that you would only post when your busy life allows you to post. Shouldn't you give these new members the same consideration.

The thing is you have no idea who's enrolled and who are simply members. So you really have no idea if they meet your criteria or not. If you have proof, take it to admin. If not, this thread may not be doing anyone any good.

And what if someone does join for the sole purpose of entering the contests? It could be nothing more than someones competitive nature. It may have nothing to do with the money. And in the end, it may benefit PP by bringing in more traffic and interest. I bet we have all at one tiime or another has entered a contest in the hopes of winning, and participated nothing to the reason for the contest in the first place. Other photo contests, Publishers Clearing House, drawings you signed up for while crusing the shopping malls, the list goes on and on.

Listen, if there are members here that are just posting in the contest for the sole purpose of making a buck, according to the rules, they are allowed to do it even though you may not agree. You can't force members to partake in the forum. Membership can lead to enrollment, and I'm sure that's what admin is trying to increase. Let's not scrare them away from participating in some respect.


I don't think you read the thread completely before posting. People taking the course here are not the ones we were speaking about, and this was said TWICE. I don't even participate in the POTM competition here and have the attitude I do. I care about making this forum better, and that cannot be done if my post count is 0, or if all I post is garbage just to "appear" as if I am contributing.

People who's post count is zero and are not students here, that contribute NOTHING to the board, yet feel free, without the courtesy of even 1 single "hi" post... that they can upload pictures here in an attempt to win prizes *are* leeches that contribute NOTHING. I bet that they just sit on their flat behinds posting pics to as many competitions they can find ALL DAY on any site they can.

Childish greedy leechers is what I call them now... and THAT is the kind of person not welcome here, IMHO.

If that describes anyone here and they are all offended... tough, suck it up, and either change or move on. It takes more than leeches to make a good forum better, and certainly this kind of person shall not be missed if they cannot learn to participate in meaningful ways to make this place as good as it is.

BTW, interesting that pdlewis made the time to post an angry comment after winning here... but he himself did not even offer a polite little "hi" prior to his fellow classmates here. I would have much rather met him and had a nicer first impression of him before seeing the misguided attitude. Posting a hello is not mandatory, but then again neither is courtesy, I suppose... thats a little sad.

[LensBaby]

I see where you are coming from Joseph, and for the new members, yes they may not have had time yet, with the holidays and everything. My point on it is this...I want to keep the active members here, so therefore my vote will go to the member that is. I am only one person voting though, and everybody else can make up their own minds. I enjoy this forum, and I can honestly say that when I sign on and there is NOTHING posted, and then I sign on again, and nothing - it really makes me want to just leave, and go somewhere more active. I have been refering people here, and sending people the links, just because I do enjoy it, and would like more activity.(almost 50 people sent here in 4 days) I also, NEVER have submitted a photo for a contest, without posting on a forum. (I have only ever posted one photo at any other place before) I never enter contests or the such. I will just stop participating all together with the contests, and that is fine with me.

[coffee]

Sue, I understand your point of view also. You want members that benefit from this site to give back from time to time by way of forum conversation, comments to photos, enrolling in the courses, etc. We all want that. More members, more topics, more interaction, more learning, more stuff for everyone.

Keep in mind, that PP is still, at least from how I see it, a small group. And when you signed on, what more than a year ago, it was very new, with very little participation due to the fact there there just wasn't many members. And now that it's growing, and we have a bigger group, you are going to get a whole lot of diversity as far as what members are here for. Some are here just for the course, some are here just for the forum, some just for having a place to post there photos, and some just for the contest. And as long as they are members, and admins criteria doesn't change, they are alowed to participate in what ever fassion they want.

More memberships will lead to more active members and students, but by limiting what the member can partake just because of the number of forum post they have, may slow the numbers of new members. I don't know. Heck even no-members can vote. Again, I can assume it's to give way to additional traffic, and hope to spark some interest in the site and courses.

My only point is that if a member wants to use this site for nothing more than participation in the photo contests, and it's well inside the rules, then there is a chance they themselves may become very active members in the future. But it's just one mans opinion, and everyone can vote according to thier own contest criteria.



I see where you are coming from Joseph, and for the new members, yes they may not have had time yet, with the holidays and everything. My point on it is this...I want to keep the active members here, so therefore my vote will go to the member that is. I am only one person voting though, and everybody else can make up their own minds. I enjoy this forum, and I can honestly say that when I sign on and there is NOTHING posted, and then I sign on again, and nothing - it really makes me want to just leave, and go somewhere more active. I have been refering people here, and sending people the links, just because I do enjoy it, and would like more activity. I also, NEVER have submitted a photo for a contest, without posting on a forum. (I have only ever posted one photo at any other place before) I never enter contests or the such. I will just stop participating all together with the contests, and that is fine with me.

[LensBaby]

But it's just one mans opinion, and everyone can vote according to thier own contest criteria.[/QUOTE]


Exactly, and this was just my opinion.

[peeper]

Hey guys, Keith here. Everybody!..................HI! Instead of studying for my Photography class in which I just signed up to three weeks ago or so, I found myself trapped under the spell of drama. I just had to add to the conversation.
Under this "forum" I see posts/threads. Am I right so far?
Under these threads I see Landscape/micro/urban/ to name a few. Many other great learning "Posts" can also be found. As I stated earlier I am a Proud Photography virgin...............Who works all day to make a living/buy camera equip/and enroll in my first ever semi formal Photography class. The first thing I do when I come home from work is check to see if there is a message from the teacher. Then I take a look in the forum just to see if there are any new posts that catch my eye. Well I gotta say.......This one caught my eye.
While I was looking through all of these "Threads" I came upon one that said "POTM".................Photo of the month.................CONTEST!.............MONEY!
But wait......I haven't figured out how to do my gallery or anything. Did I submit a Photograph in the POTM contest? You bet I did. .....Why not? Right? Even though I haven't uploaded to my gallery or have written many posts, I do try to put my Photos in any contest I can. Not only for the chance of winning money because I no how good a Photographer I am.........Not that good. My chances are slim at winning the money. This is why I am here. This is why I payed to take the PP class:)
I just want everybody to keep this in mind. There are some people out here who mainly enter contests just to see how they rate next to the big boys. If you don't want people uploading Photographs into your Photo contest every month then perhaps you should do away with it. I would have entered the contest even if there wasn't any money to be won.
That's all I have to say I guess. I hope the people (you people) that I get to soon meet will still help me in my times of Photography struggle. Lets not lose focus. It took me two hours to write all of this and now I'm off to save the world:) I guess I'll have to look at lesson 5 tomorrow night.

[peeper]

Do away with the money and you will do away with all the leeches. I am here to learn how I can profit off my Photography... Not a contest. I read three pages of posts and came to one conclusion...........You are all right. Get rid of what makes people greedy and you will get rid of the greedy people.

[LensBaby]

Hey...you did just what I wanted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P O S T E D and said Hi,and told about yourself. Nice to meet you, and I can't wait to see your photos! Hey by the way...I can't wait to see your photos in the POTM.

[vickig]

Well, I guess you all know by now, that even though I'm new here, I have no problem posting.:p However - that's just me. I think some people want to get the feel of the forum first, or maybe they just don't think they have anything to contribute. I have yet to give any opinion on any of the photos looking for cc. I just don't think I am qualified - or as experienced as a lot of you. I'm just here to learn (from the course and the forum) and have some contact with other like-minded folks out there. I like Peeper's idea of doing away with the cash prize. I'd be happy just to win!! No cash necessary. I'm sure there are those folks who do put photos in any contest they can find. Well, so what? If they are better than I am, it just makes me want to do better. There are some people who don't have to work either - I can't worry about them when I leave for work each day.:)

[LensBaby]

My whole contribuation to this is trying to make the forum a bigger, better place for us. We should all want that :D:D:D:D:D

[pdlewis]

I am not a "forum" guy and to be quite honest I never have found one that interested me enough to invest the time to understand the "etiquette" and how everything works. One of my goals for taking the course was to get outside of my comfort zone and push myself to try and interact with like minded people interested in learning about photography.

Once I figured out how to log in . . a couple of days that I am not proud of . . the first thread that caught my eye was the POTM thread. After looking at some of the amazing pictures from past months I clicked on the one for this month and noticed that it was "food and drink". It just so happened that I had taken a photo that I liked just last week so I loaded it up. Not expecting to win, but just wanted to get involved for once.

I had not posted to any of the other forums because I had not even seen them yet, nor do I feel comfortable commenting on other peoples pictures yet. I don't even know what is appropriate so I had planned to wait a bit and understand how the community works and get a better understanding of the tools.

I have to admit I was bummed when the very first forum post I read was calling people out for just uploading without being "involved" in the community. Exactly what I had unknowingly done.

Anyway, after reading the thread it is clear to me that most of us are here for the same thing and I will just focus on that and not worry about the "drama" surrounding the prize money. It will be years before I submit anything good enough to win anyway. lol

I'm about half way there with the forum tools at this point, but if you find a message posted in the wrong place or on the wrong topic please just point me in the right direction. I appreciate the help from those of you that are willing.

[LensBaby]

I am not a "forum" guy and to be quite honest I never have found one that interested me enough to invest the time to understand the "etiquette" and how everything works. One of my goals for taking the course was to get outside of my comfort zone and push myself to try and interact with like minded people interested in learning about photography.

Once I figured out how to log in . . a couple of days that I am not proud of . . the first thread that caught my eye was the POTM thread. After looking at some of the amazing pictures from past months I clicked on the one for this month and noticed that it was "food and drink". It just so happened that I had taken a photo that I liked just last week so I loaded it up. Not expecting to win, but just wanted to get involved for once.

I had not posted to any of the other forums because I had not even seen them yet, nor do I feel comfortable commenting on other peoples pictures yet. I don't even know what is appropriate so I had planned to wait a bit and understand how the community works and get a better understanding of the tools.

I have to admit I was bummed when the very first forum post I read was calling people out for just uploading without being "involved" in the community. Exactly what I had unknowingly done.

Anyway, after reading the thread it is clear to me that most of us are here for the same thing and I will just focus on that and not worry about the "drama" surrounding the prize money. It will be years before I submit anything good enough to win anyway. lol

I'm about half way there with the forum tools at this point, but if you find a message posted in the wrong place or on the wrong topic please just point me in the right direction. I appreciate the help from those of you that are willing.



There isn't ever any drama here, that is why I like this group. That was just a post explaining that I would like the forums to get more traffic, so when people do want to converse with other photographers, they might find somebody on here. Did you read through all of the posts? There were a lot on there that mentions this. I don't want you to feel that you HAVE to post. It is nice that you did tell us a little about yourself. This was my whole reason behind this, so whoever wants to read it can, and whoever doesn't want to doesn't have to......

There was a particular person that was uploading photos and they were doing things that were unfair. I do not want to get into it on here. That is one of the reasons why we were saying, just posting ONE post and saying Hi my name is ................ It wasn't to make anybody feel bad, or NOT post photos...it was meant to drive more traffic to the forums. Sorry you felt this way. Oh and your liquid photo is nice...I love the reflections. I AM NO LONGER REPLYING TO THIS POST.

[jerryph]

I'm out too.

[lornem]

Just read all through this thread and must admit, i feel a lot of it is clap trap, ok i've won the last three months POTM, and i hardly post on the forum, and the reason ?

i feel as though i'm not good enough as a photographer to comment on anyone elses work, method of working, composition, in fact anything to do with it at all

But then again i don't profess to know anything at all about my "hobby". because thats what it is to me, that's all , a hobby. Not a way of life where i know this that and the other, and i don't feel the need to tell everyone i do, just to make myself seem a little bit more important then the norm.

I like taking photo's how i take them, i like taking any which way i take them, do you really think i care that you think it is a little to out of focus, i don't ..... i took it and i'm PROUD of it

[directshooter]

I sort off get the gist with this post and i have not been here long , but from what i have read on this post , i look at it like this>

I dont no what the voting system is , nor do I not know the rules on voting , but if it's a competition wether a regular visitor to the forum or a photographer who comes now and then ' surely the best image with the most votes wins ' / or whats the point?

I would just like to say , I or my company sponsors quite a few photographic competitions and photographic outfits and websites' all out of my pocket ' and a few of the prizes are cash? I know since I have been providing services for photographers like the ones I just mentioned , I have helped photographers to get there images published in magazines, helped photographers to sell there works as post cards etc etc...and above all I have found some great photographic talents, who have accompanied me on my personal commissions and who I have personally helped set them selfes up as working photographers>>

So my take is this , if it as the votes it's surely the rightful winner?

Si.