The rule of 3rds is kicking my can!

[blackeyedpea]

Hi everyone!
I am doing the assignments for lesson 5 and while I am having loads of fun the rule of thirds is giving me a headache. Mind you I have never had trouble with that before and I should probably just shoot some more but I admit that I am a wimp. It's cold and windy outside and it's getting worse this week. I'm probably answering my own question by asking your opinions but my brain is frozen from being outside....
Anyway is there just too much going on here for the rule to apply? I know the main subject is centered but his head is on intersecting lines...
Be honest, be brutal if you will just give me some honest CC.
Thanks a million, Lisette

[coffee]

The way I look at it is the subject is the man and his piano. It's a very nice shot but probably not a good one to submit as a rule of thirds assignment. Just my opinion though.

Make it a little easier on yourself, stay warm, and look for something inside your house that might work for lesson 5. Take a shot of something smaller that doesn't take up the entire frame. Make it something of intrest that has a background, and apply the rule. Do you have flowers or plants in your house. That subject is always good for ROT.

I like this shot though. Very cool. You do have a spot of sensor dirt 3/4the way down on the right edge. Good luck.

[blackeyedpea]

Joseph,
Thanks for the reply and comments, I know you're are right and I knew that shot probably wouldn't work. I will keep shooting until I get one that makes me happy!
By the way, I'm freaking out about the sensor dust. Could it be dust on the lens? I could only find the spot in the photo I took before this one and not on the rest.

Thanks again, Lisette

[coffee]

Joseph,
Thanks for the reply and comments, I know you're are right and I knew that shot probably wouldn't work. I will keep shooting until I get one that makes me happy!
By the way, I'm freaking out about the sensor dust. Could it be dust on the lens? I could only find the spot in the photo I took before this one and not on the rest.

Thanks again, Lisette

No that wouldn't be from the lens. Unless your lens is really dirty, lens dirt doesn't show because the focus point is well beyond the end of your lens. Should still keep your lens clean though. :) The spot might not show up on every photo unless, like this shot, there is a background lighter than the spot.

I wouldn't freak out about it though. That one spot can be PS or edited out very easily on your photos if it shows up. Eventually you will want to get it cleaned by a camera shot, send it in to the manufacture if it's still under warrenty for cleaning, or learn to properly clean a sensor yourself.

[neonmike]

Since I'm not familiar with the actual statue but I do recognize who it's of, is there any way that you could get a shot at a higher level?

I think that if you were posistioned higher and looking from almost but not directly head on, you could make the shot work perfectly. A shot showing Ray's full face with a bit of the piano in the foreground would be great.

As I mentioned though I don't know how accessible that staue is. If it's up high can you get a ladder near it? What knid of things surround it? If you can get to a higher vantage point as mentioned, would the background be too distracting? All things to consider.

I like the shot though.

[trulight]

I like the shot - keep in mind that I'm a beginner taking the course too! I think the main subject is Ray and that this photo demonstrates the ROT. Even the main part of the piano stands up on the right, not in the middle. If I remember the assignment instructions, I think you can submit several shots. I also thought that with this course, one can resubmit assignments until you are happy - this was one of the selling points for me. So... I would send this one to get the instructor's feedback on it and also submit another that obviously demonstrates ROT.

[jerryph]

Sometimes we just over-think things. :)

The rule of thirds is extremely easy to execute. Have you seen the grid of 2 evenly spaced horizontal lines and 2 evenly spaced vertical lines?

http://www.proudphotography.com/forum/gallery/files/1/0/0/0/rot.jpg

Just place the center of your subject in any one of the 4 areas that the lines intersect. Make sure that there is room around your subject so that it is CLEARLY defined as being in one of the 4 areas.

Example:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2170/2219047097_2464a1a3f8.jpg

After you have taken your picture, ask yourself:

- can you visualize the 4 lines in your viewfinder?
(- yes)

- is the main subject of your picture obvious?
(- yes it is the viper)

- did you compose your picture in such a way that there is NO doubt that your subject is in one of the quadrants?
(- yes the Viper is in the bottom right quadrant)

If you answered "yes" to all 3 questions, you have the rule of thirds.

Your pic is nice, but the main subject takes the WHOLE frame and on top of that is not clear (is your main subject the piano or the man or possibly both?), it is also not dedicated to one of the quadrants which is key to defining a picture using this "rule", therefore it is not really following the rule of thirds.

Hope that helps! :D

[blackeyedpea]

I want to thank everyone for the comments.
Mike, good eye, it is Ray! I guess I could haul a ladder over there but it would have to be a really tall one...
trulight, I think you see what I see there are elements on each of the points but too much going on I think. Thanks for liking my photo.
Jerry, how right you are about over thinking things! I have applied the RoT many times before but now that I'm being graded I'm second guessing myself. Thanks for explaining the rule and you are certainly correct however as per our lesson you can also apply the rule by dividing the shot into the top 3rd, middle 3rd and bottom 3rd. Of course the shot of Ray doesn't follow that either... Sooo, I've taken a few more and again I'm asking for CC's please.
The first one would be divided into top, middle bottom but is there just too much to look at?
The next one I think...that gets me in trouble... apply the rule by the points. Alright I'm second guessing myself again.

[neonmike]

I like both shots however the first one looks a little out of focus. I took a shot very similar to this over the summer. While I love the shot I do feel that there is a little too much going on. If you focused one of the sticks closer to the fall it would have blurred the background a little more. Assuming the fall was the main target.

As for the second shot I really love it but I think you could crop it a little tighter leaving her head in the top left third while eliminating some of the extra space on at the bottom of the photo.

You have the right concept. It's now just an issue of explaining it visually. I find that more often than not we struggle the most with the things we do day in and day out when we actually HAVE to do them. LOL

[jerryph]

Jerry, how right you are about over thinking things! I have applied the RoT many times before but now that I'm being graded I'm second guessing myself.
lol... just relax and have fun with it. :D



The first one would be divided into top, middle bottom but is there just too much to look at?

No, you have a little more serious issue there than the rule of thirds... you were not paying attention to your focus points. It looks like the camera focused on the branch rather than the water behind. Again... *what* was your subject? Was your picture composed on purpose in such a manner that the subject was skewed to a place other than the exact center? With the first picture, I just cannot answer either question.


The next one I think...that gets me in trouble... apply the rule by the points. Alright I'm second guessing myself again.

The second one conforms to the rule, but do you find it a pleasant picture? You have a clear subject, it is skewed in an area away from the center... but because we see little surrounding context, the picture fails from the compositional standpoint, even though it does follow the rule of thirds (nice expression too!). I would have left a little more of the surrounding areas around her and cropped her so that she would be a little smaller in the picture.

Now, again, sometimes we over think, and sometimes we need to think a little more... like watching out for exactly WHAT the camera is focusing on and asking if is that the same thing that WE want to be focusing on... and can a simple change of angles help? What if you stood behind and to the side of the little girl on the swings... and caught her as she was in the (for example) bottom left of the picture and the rest of the shot was filled with portions of the swing set and colourful background? It would both make the rule of thirds and make the picture more fun and interesting to look at.

Look at the angle of the photo that I attached... that angle, just maybe 50% closer and maybe a little more behind? It is hard to visualize, but the point is that we would see more of the surrounding area, giving the picture a clearer setting... are we in a park? behind a house? That kind of thought process. :)

[blackeyedpea]

Mike and Jerry,

I want to thank you both for your comments and suggestions, I truly appreciate your help!
The first shot is actually cropped way down I suppose that's why the focus is so off since my main focal point isn't even there :o ...
Jerry, I needed your comment about the scene in photo 2, I cropped it down specifically so you could see the facial expression. Since I want to specialize in portrait photography I was looking at it with that in mind however "I see said the blind man" err woman in this case LOL. I see what you mean about including the background to tell the story. I will keep your very helpful comments in mind when I'm out shooting from now on.

Have a great day!
Lisette