Frozen Pond

[DoctorJazz]

I started this thread in the Landscape category, and now will continue it here to avoid confusion, as it probably belongs here. Thanks again Kaye and Eddie (eyerkish) for all your great input.

Here is one more version.....I changed the white balance again in Lightroom2.

[Kaye]

Hi again Sandy,

Below in green is a copy of my post to you in your thread in "Landscapes" showing the steps of the edit that I commenced.
Now that you have posted it here, I made a few more minor alterations to it and am attaching my edit below, although I am still not happy with it.

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Sandy, On PS:
You go to: Image, then Adjustments, then down to Selective Colour.
Then you will have a dropdown menu at top which will most likely be red (you can change this). You can pick blue or yellow etc. and move the various sliding scales. The darken/lighten scale is at the bottom. Remember, you can also lighten White.

I use selective colour a lot to discolour or alter backgrounds a little. Eg. If a green background is too light and bright, I darken it and then alter the Magenta colour slightly.
Using this avoids the necessity of layers, and is very quick.

Hope this helps a little, as I do not know Lightroom.
__________________

[DoctorJazz]

Hi Kaye,

Thanks for your post....I like the overall brightness although it seems more obvious
that my focus was a little off in this pic......I may have to go back to this location
and try again. The day I took this the light was fading and it was unusually warm
causing a lot of misting.

I have one more to post here. I wanted to see if I could get the effect you are suggesting in your PS steps Kaye, only using the tools I have in LR.
I think I'm on the right track.....now I need to take a better photo! (Focus!)

I posted yours first Kaye, then mine next. Oh yes, I also liked the lighter border you used, so I changed mine and do like it. Thanks!!!

[StephenK]

Hi Sandy :^)

I like Kaye's approach!! :^)

I thought I'd take a look at a channels mask angle and here's what I came up with...

This first step is a bit tricky but bear with me...

The image is so dark that you first need to lighten it a bit before heading to step 2.

Add a levels layer and set it to Screen then toss the white mask for that layer into the trash.

Now, Step 2..Goto the Channels tabs and Control-Click on the RGB Thumbnail...this should give you the marching ants... go back
to layers and add a New mask to the same Levels Layer.. which will pickup the marching ants.. then adjust to taste...)

Now highlight that layer and press Control-Alt-Shift and then the Letter E...

This will give you a solid composite layer of the layers below...

Now hold down the Alt key and grab the mask from the levels layer and drag it up to the new composite layer. (holding down the Alt key will make a "copy" of that mask.)

Now highlight the image thumbnail in that layer and sharpen accordingly. (I used Smart Sharpen Amount 177 Radius 0.3) Having the mask there forces the sharpening to go through it... this
allows for a more exacting application of what's sharpened...

This really is much easier to do than it is to explain...
The reason for using the Channels mask is to keep everything proportionate to the gradients within the scene. The masks actually "shape" the effects of an application.

I'm also trying to remember if you have photoshop or not? :^)

[StephenK]

Beautifully done Sandy!! :^)

I'm curious to see if you or anyone else is noticing a notable shift in their images from photoshop to the web?

When I uploaded mine I noted that the online version was "much" bluer than the one I have sitting in photoshop.
There was also a brightness shift in the one that I uploaded to Gil last night (In the ..Camera Raw thread) ... The one
online was an easy One to Two stops brighter than the one I'm looking at in the photoshop window...

There are so many variables to this... the monitors used and the adjustments they're set at... and even with the same monitor
I see a distinct difference from photoshop to online...

Just wondering how heavily this is effecting others... tends to drive me loopy... :^)

[DoctorJazz]

Wow! Thanks StephenK! I do not have PS, but I am saving these approaches that you and Kaye are suggesting in case I take the PS plunge at some point. Right
now I work with Lightroom2 and will probably upgrade to LR3 if people are
liking that. I am over my head with much of this, but am getting better at
figuring things out as I go. I'm still discovering things I have in Lightroom that
I never knew about!

I agree that there is quite a difference in many images after uploading.....not sure
what to make of that, except that I routinely check them after uploading to see
if I need to compensate for that.

Thanks again for the edit and explaining how you got there. It is so helpful.

[StephenK]

Wonderful! Sandy :^)

The important part is that you're learning to edit with an eye toward the subtleties involved!

I think the difference between these two styles of software is ultimately the direction you wish to move in... If your
primary reason for editing is to support your love for photography then Lightroom is an Excellent program to deepen these
skills with... but if you're moving toward Art then photoshops almost unavoidable.

I say this after spending the core of this last year trying to wrestle this program to the mat... Photoshop is one of the
most complex undertakings I've latched onto yet (other than raising two children, followed closely by once being a builder, and
of course being right by my marriage was a wonderful undertaking... but I digress... :^)

.... photoshop is intense but it's intensity bears fruit!

Lately I've been shifting my attention much less toward the software itself and more toward what it can do when applied
to art. I'm starting to study the deep intricacies of composition, color coordination, what makes a traditional painting great, and the
many pitfalls that need to be actively avoided.

What tickles me to no end, is that now that the software itself is less the issue the ability to now apply it is
so welcomed and happily embraced.

Photoshop is truly an artistic tool... an absolute monster to tame but what a powerhouse once this leaning-hump is bridged!

I still have tons to learn but I can happily see the light at the end of the tunnel... If you're looking toward Art then
OMG photoshops the bomb! There's nothing that can't be done with this program! :^)

[DoctorJazz]

Thanks for your thoughts on all of this StephenK!
All I can say for now is that whatever happens, Photoshop or not, the learning
process is so much fun!

Until then.....Happy Editing!

[StephenK]

Until then.....Happy Editing!

Amen.....! :)

[Kaye]

Hi Kaye,

Thanks for your post....I like the overall brightness although it seems more obvious
that my focus was a little off in this pic......I may have to go back to this location
and try again. The day I took this the light was fading and it was unusually warm
causing a lot of misting.

I have one more to post here. I wanted to see if I could get the effect you are suggesting in your PS steps Kaye, only using the tools I have in LR.
I think I'm on the right track.....now I need to take a better photo! (Focus!)

I posted yours first Kaye, then mine next. Oh yes, I also liked the lighter border you used, so I changed mine and do like it. Thanks!!!


Sandy, my edit above next to your new edit..... mine does seem a little blurred compared to your version. I am not sure why, perhaps it has something to do with lessening the blue colour, as I did not add any blur.
Your edits are improving. By the way, I didn't use any border!
I really think you should give photoshop a go. Just learn a couple of the tools on the side first, eg Clone tool... and learn as you edit. You really do learn from your mistakes, so always duplicate your image! On occasions when I am stuck, I flick to a quick video tutorial, which I leave on my desktop, as I try it again.

[DoctorJazz]

Thanks again StephenK and Kaye......the monster is unleashed.
After sleeping on it I downloaded the free trial for PS4 Extended.....it may be a
while before anything else gets done in my house!

Looking forward to some new posts.

[StephenK]

Thanks again StephenK and Kaye......the monster is unleashed.
After sleeping on it I downloaded the free trial for PS4 Extended.....it may be a
while before anything else gets done in my house!
Looking forward to some new posts.


That's great Sandy! I'll write more later (right now I'm hanging several ceilings with drywall in our house and have
rented a lift to do it... so go, go, is the theme :^) but I did want to congratulate you on your decision! You just opened the
door to a fascinating new addiction and most wonderfully-fulfilling obsession! :)

[StephenK]

Before long we'll have you turning regular images into something a bit different and more fun Sandy! :)

[DoctorJazz]

Just saw your last post StephenK!
Great edit and inspiration to get busy learning this stuff!

I can see that I will be lost in PS land for a while.

[Kaye]

Sandy, this is one thing I do not know how to do in PS...
Please tell me how you did this.

[DoctorJazz]

Hi Kaye,

I am starting out with CS4 Extended.
Along the top application bar, there is an application for 3D which I clicked on.
One of the options listed there is called "New Tile Painting" which I clicked on.
That was it......unless I am missing something, there was no other option given to
select number of tiles with this feature. ( Anyone can please correct me here.)

Hope that helps.

[Kaye]

Thanks for that Sandy. I don't think there is an application for 3D in CS2, but will check it out.
Perhaps someone else (Stephen) may know if this can be done in CS2... ??

[DoctorJazz]

Kaye,

I'm sure there is another way to do this without 3D.....I am continuing to search
for the answer.....will keep you posted.

[DoctorJazz]

Kaye,

There is another way to get this effect without 3D.
I don't know if there is something better, but I was able to play with the image as
a layer. I could use the Free Transform command under EDIT, and reduce the size of the image to 1/4, then make a copy of the layer, and use the move tool to
slide another 1/4 size image over next to the first one, then copy and repeat until
all four quadrants are full. Here is how it came out.

I hope this answers your question....also I hope if anyone has a better way to
please share!

[StephenK]

I didn't even know about the "New Tile Painting" option Sandy! And I don't see a way of controlling it either?? Which is odd??
I can't imagine a use for this if it can only stubbornly do one thing!?

Your second approach to this is the way I would have done it! You can also get better control over the sizes if you activate
the grids and use the rulers as an aid (View>Rulers -and- View>Show>Grid)

Here's a video I just found that goes into using the two in some detail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geGwmRZn6dg

You should be able to enter a tools name in the search engine for youtube and get quite a few videos on each subject!

Also... for a "quick" rundown on some of the basic stuff in photoshop here's a link to a site with no-sound videos.
Great little animated snippets on how the primary tools work!

http://www.hscripts.com/tutorials/photoshop/index.php

And Kaye, you would have to have the "extended" version of photoshop in order to have the 3D options. They've been
working on making it better! I get the impression that it's much more user friendly than it would have been in CS2 (they may not
have had it in that version) I didn't get started with photoshop until CS3 and didn't pursue 3D until upgrading to CS4... and even now I'm
not up, at all, on it's deeper workings.

There is totally so much to photoshop that even when fully engaged in learning it's in and outs this monster takes a
while to get familiar with! :^)

And good job Sandy! It sounds like you're off and running on exploring what's behind the menus! Just work at getting used
to it a step at a time... If things don't happen quickly that's totally okay... Think of it as though you're learning to ice skate...
Very Awkward at first but over time certain workflows start becoming routine.... they become almost like body-memories.
You'll build your way up until it starts feeling normal and natural.... stubbornly continue to build on what you're learning and
you'll do great! :^)

[Kaye]

Sandy, thank you so much for seeking out this info. As I'm presently stuck with CS2, I will give your suggestion a try. You seem to be learning heaps with your CS4 trial. Have fun with it.

Stephen, a big thank you to you also. You have saved me the effort of looking for any 3D options on CS2, but I did not think that any of the menus included this.
Hopefully in the future when I upgrade in camera, I can also upgrade to PS4.

I have not had the time to go into the links you posted, but will do soon.

Thank you both.

[DoctorJazz]

Kaye,
Have fun with this.....the patterns you can make are endless. Just like Stephen said,
the sky is the limit.

Stephen,
You and Kaye were so right about giving this a try. Thank you for all your info and these
tutorials in the above post are going to be my next assignment.

[Kaye]

Sandy, I am so glad you are now on your way with PS, and am really glad we talked you into trying.

At present I have very little time to do more tutorials, or even edit my shots, but hopefully this will improve soon.
(At present spending heaps of time trying to look after my son's new Pizza shop (and discipline my son), which, with the current economy is difficult for a small new business).

[DoctorJazz]

Me too Kaye!

Best of luck with your son's new endeavor, and may I suggest that if you haven't
already thought of it I'm sure you could have fun with transforming wall space into
gallery space for some of your work!

[Kaye]

Thanks for your wishes Sandy. Others have suggested the same to me about the wall space, as there is plenty of it. At present we are trying to decorate as cheaply as possible.
I was trying to work out the cheapest way of blowing up and mounting a couple of my photos. Suggestions welcome.
I have one empty frame at home in the matching colour to a couple of other cheap prints already on the walls, so will blow up one of my shots to fit.
I set up a site for the restaurant: www.mcgourmetpizza.blogspot.com

[CallMeNovice]

Hi Kaye, I'm going to post a suggestion that I read on Scott Kelby's blog (I think it was his blog .. if not, then one of his books) to display prints.

He purchased a "GRUNDTAL RAIL" from IKEA (I'm pretty sure that IKEA uses the same names worldwide) ... they come in different lengths (starting at about $10 US) and are marketed for the kitchen. BUT - he installed it on his wall and then simply clipped his prints to it (depending on the look you want, you could clip two / three in a row, etc). The prints hang down and look amazing ... and you can switch them out as you get more / different prints that you like. I thought it was a very novel idea (and cheap) and a great way to decorate a wall. ... :) and show off your photos at the same time

[Kaye]

Thank you so much for this info Melanie. I will be in contact with IKEA in the next few days.

My only concern (having not seen this "rail") is that the photos may curl up a little, but perhaps my question may be answered once I have seen it.

[CallMeNovice]

hmm good point. I think I got the name of the rail wrong .. they're saying it's an "ASKER" display rail. Here's the page with a picture of how it works!

http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/?s=ikea

[Kaye]

Thanks again Melanie. This looks quite interesting, but then I went into a link within your link, and like the "Klang" rail idea - as you can't really see the rail very much. I presume he mounts them on "core" board or "foam" board and then attaches them to the Klang.

[StephenK]

Kaye,
Have fun with this.....the patterns you can make are endless. Just like Stephen said,
the sky is the limit.

Stephen,
You and Kaye were so right about giving this a try. Thank you for all your info and these
tutorials in the above post are going to be my next assignment.

Great! The deeper you get into photoshop the deeper it goes, if you're an addict for staying busy like I am, you'll likely
never get bored with this program!

I'm currently taking a side trip to support my photoshop habit.... :^) I bit-the-bullet and picked up the 3D program
called "Poser" in order to help bring human models into my future compositions. I'll likely only use Poser for selective
placing of the models themselves, and do the rest of the work in photoshop to help compose complex scenes.... I'm
drawn more toward the fantasy angle so Poser ought to work-out well along those lines!

But this means that I may be bouncing back and forth on the forum while I tackle this other intense learn-curve... that,
and it looks like we'll be buying another house shortly! :eek: My wife is applying for work a couple hours from where we now live...
(Long story, but pleasant and interesting on a number of levels! ... :^)

Love the web site you built for your son Kaye!! I'm a trim carpenter by trade and I love the extra detailed work that
was done to dress it up! On the photos and matting... You may be able to take your photos to an office supply store
and see how much they charge for larger prints. Or you can check-out "Costco" and see what's involved in using their
services. I haven't been doing larger printing yet but I did talk with a rep and she told me they're able to work with monitor profiles, so
their process can be fairly sophisticated... and yet reasonably so!

You actaully have one in Docklands, Melbourne, Victoria 3008 Australia.
http://www.costco.com/Warehouse/WarehouseDetails.aspx?WarehouseNumber=5101

Click on the costco logo at the top on the page and it'll take you to their main site. It looks like a lot of their stuff can be done via the mail!

But I haven't a clue about the actual matting... haven't gotten there yet myself. :^)

Great luck with your sons business!!! What a wonderfully impressive undertaking on both of your parts!!

[DoctorJazz]

Stephen,
Thanks for the rulers/grids tutorial link. It really helped.
Best of luck with your designing.....I loved the magical quality of the skater in your last edit above......can't wait to see more!

[StephenK]

Hi Sandy :^)

This image of yours is so nice I had to revisit it twice.. :)

[DoctorJazz]

Stephen,

Thank you for visiting!! I love what you did with the pond....love the mirror image
and the colors....the moose is a welcome guest in the scene too.....once again you have proven that anything is possible.

[StephenK]

Thanks Sandy! :^)

How are things coming-along with your new copy of photoshop?!

I took a heavy spin for at short time working with the whole 3D thingy... my goodness that's intense.... I needed to come
back and dive into something I'm already familiar with and deeply enjoy!

In the pond image I did the mirror, but I also tried cloning-it-up-a-bit so that it didn't look like an exact replica of the
other side... The moose was a tough one... I was trying to blend it in, color-wise, but the moose started off as dark already
and while trying to match environmental colors the moose all but disappeared! So I had to settle for somewhere in-between...

The color along the horizon was actaully a sunset picture I had, masked-in with a channels mask. Below is a screen capture
of how it was done. Could you imagine trying to cut-all-that-in otherwise!
I then applied the "Linear Light" blending mode to the sunset to give it some punch...

This really is a nice picture you posted... I keep coming back to it from time to time to see what else is available!

So what's happening with photoshop... I'm curious to hear how you're doing! :^)




http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll202/StephenKr/ScreenHunter_02Mar221340.gif

[DoctorJazz]

Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the details on your edit work....I don't understand the channels concept at all yet, but am interested in learning more. So far I am thoroughly hooked on
CS4 and finding it pretty user friendly for someone who didn't do computers at all until little over a year ago. Every time I work on an image I am learning something new, and it is fun to be able to recognize what other people are doing to create certain looks.

No regrets!!!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[StephenK]

That's wonderful Sandy! :^)

I didn't discover the whole channels thingy until about 8 months into my photoshop learn-curve... When I reflect on
it now I see that this very-likely wasn't a bad thing. I ran across a quote by a teacher of 3D stuff here recently that essentially says
it all.. to paraphrase, he opined, that the ongoing responsibility of each student is to "continually perfect the basics"...

It's among the basics that the real magic takes shape... even when using channels masks we're still working with the basics
but now running them through a custom-built filter.

So clearly you're on the right track! But do save this information that I'm passing along! I've been trying to
boil channels masks down to the basics, in relation to channels masks as a serious focus. They truly are a massive leap forward when
you start to dig into their details. Some things that used to take me hours to do, can sometimes be done in seconds through
building the right mask.... but it took me those 8 months to appreciate that... and those 8 months to learn the magic within the basics themselves.

For years I often wondered what it would be like to have a hobby that engaged one's imagination on a whole number of levels.. I'm happy to say
that I now know what that feels like.. And for me it's found within Photoshop... who-da thunk it! :^)

[DoctorJazz]

Hi Stephen,

I couldn't agree more with your teacher about the basics....if you don't learn them, you can't build on them.
I also couldn't agree more about saving this information that you share for future reference.
I am sincerely grateful for that.